RPP #216 Dan Lenard Transcript


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Rod (00:00:25) - Now that was Jingle Bells, a teaser by Natalie Brown, who's a soulful vocalist songwriter with a very dynamic multi octave range. I will play the full song at the end of my podcast. I hope you enjoy it. I'm happy to report that this episode is sponsored by NEDLA. That's the Northeast Digital Learning Association, nedla.org. This is a chapter of the US, DLA the United States Distance Learning Association. Please support my sponsor. In this episode, I interview Dan Leonard, who is the president of World Voices, the only nonprofit international industry trade organization for voice actors. We discuss the importance of finding the right voice to help create engaging e-learning courses. The voice actors are all conveying complex information, cultural literacy, and sounding natural. Advocating for faculty to enhance teaching skills with good audio setup.

Rod (00:01:32) - The delicate balance of editing to maintain a natural human sounding voice. AI voice synthesis benefits of professional voice over and higher education. New classroom technology and lecture capture. And podcasting basics and the importance of proper recording technique. So without further ado, here's my interview with Dan Leonard. I'm happy to have Dan Leonard here talking to me today from World Voices. So, Dan, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and for example, where you're located and how you what has been your career path and how you got into world voices? Thanks.

Dan (00:02:09) - Rod, I appreciate that and thanks for having me on. I I've been in voiceover literally I like to say the Ford administration, but uh, I was I was in broadcasting for, for many years. Um, and then I was in I left broadcasting in about 1990 and, um, went into education. Well, I went into life insurance for a while, which I learned an awful lot about marketing myself and how to break telephones.

Dan (00:02:39) - Um, and then I went back to school and got my, uh, my teaching certificate in New York State. I was living in Buffalo at the time where I spent most of my life. I taught for a couple of years, left education and. Discovered the voiceover business had become, you know, with the internet, it had become online before. It was like, if you're working at a radio station and an advertising agency said, we need your voice for something, you'd either record it at that studio or you'd go to another studio in town and record it. But with home studios and the technology changing, people were, you know, could now do it from home and just send files as MP3 or over, uh, over drop boxes. And, and that changed the whole business. And I got in very early on with the internet age on this and uh, been doing voiceover for all sorts of different things, uh, for the last, uh, last 23 years, uh, you know, e-learning commercials, um, you know, all the other things, corporate business to business stuff.

Dan (00:03:46) - It's just so many religious material. And, uh, then in, um, 2007, the idea of having an industry association came up and it took a few years, but we started, uh, whoa, whoa. There were four of us that said, look, we need to have an actual industry association. Uh, me and three other guys who we knew from some conferences that we would go to, and we started this organization. And what we are as an industry association is trying to promote, first off, promote the professional nature of voiceover. Um, you know, there's the stuff that people hear on TV and car commercials and national flight spots and stuff like that. That's another business that those are people who are union people. They have agents, they're big time, and they get paid a lot of money to do it. But I can count them probably on two hands. The people that are doing it, they're, you know, there's a few people they might get a job here or there.

Dan (00:04:50) - That's a totally different business. The people who do the narration for all of the things, like you're talking about e-learning and corporate narration and all the stuff that you see on the internet, that's all done by people who are working day to day, constantly trying to market themselves and not having an agent, you know, trying to get them booked into some big paying job. So you have to create a stream of income and convince people that you're the right person to do it. And, uh, what we're trying to do with World Voices is to help people learn how to do that and promote our vetted professionals, people who are vetted as professional. They have a website. They have a track record of working, uh, at market rates for different, different projects. And so if someone wants to hire one of the people that are a member of our organization, they're going to find somebody who is very qualified at doing that. Uh, although many people specialize in different things. Okay.

Rod (00:05:52) - So I'm very interested in, in the entrepreneurial, uh, pathway.

Rod (00:05:57) - And so was there a point in your lifetime you say, or somebody, you know, comment that you have a great voice, you should be on the radio? What was the point at which, uh, you decide to go down that path?

Dan (00:06:09) - If only I could tell you how many times a day I hear that. Or how many times I've heard that on an elevator. Uh, yeah. Everybody says that you have a great voice. The voiceover is not about having a great voice. Voice over. It's about communicating. It's, uh, it's about being an actor, knowing who you're talking to, where you're talking to them, how you're talking to them. What are you talking to them about? You know, there's the basic five W's, and you have to put that in your mind as you're you get a script. It's not just words on paper. It's who am I communicating to? Uh, what's the backstory to this? How do I sound like I'm having a conversation? Because voiceover generally is not talking to a thousand people.

Dan (00:06:50) - Well, if it's broadcast or streamed, there are lots of people seeing it. But you're not talking to them all at the same time. You're talking to one person, right? And that's the important part about voice acting. Somebody who can understand how to do that and has the skill and talent to do that, it's going to do that. But the business itself, as you said, is an entrepreneurial business. It's you have to you've got to find your own work. And fortunately, there's a lot of work out there. There's a lot of people producing all of this material for YouTube and e-learning. It's an entrepreneurial business in the fact that you've got to do your own marketing. Which means finding people. Who need voiceover work or who need voice actors to do something narrated. You know, a lot of times it's like I tried doing it myself, but I don't I don't sound, you know, the way I should. And they want sounding voice. And, you know, a lot of times they'll go, your voice is fine, you know, your material.

Dan (00:07:51) - And that's part of what we do is we need to know, make it sound like we know what we're talking about.

Rod (00:07:57) - Right? Right. In fact, yeah. Let's bring it around to, uh, my audience, which is mostly interested in educational technology. And, you know, a lot of the teaching and learning these days has migrated to online, whether it's, uh, podcast. I started my podcast as a to give, uh, faculty at my institution, uh, a way to communicate with their students and, um, and now, of course, with, with zoom, everybody's on zoom like we are right now. And that really had a big bump up, of course, during the pandemic. Um, what can you tell my audience about, uh, uh, features or, or the process of voiceover, uh, uh, in higher education and how do you think that's used? What are some of the issues about that? I think, um, you know, some of the content is very dense and technical.

Rod (00:08:53) - Um, how do you find somebody like that that can do a good job?

Dan (00:08:58) - Uh, well, you have to. That's why you go into, you know, we have a we have a website with world voice. It's called voiceover biz, where our professional people are registered. They've got their profiles, their demos and their contact information there. And it's a searchable directory. And you can go in there and I'm looking for somebody, you know, who sounds like a college professor or something along those lines. And some people have demos that say that, and it's searchable by demo and find people who specialize in e-learning and, and can do long format narration like that. I mean, that's something I've been doing my whole career. Um, and, uh, you know, there are some people that can't do that, and there are some people who have the skills, the recording skills and the editing skills and the vocal skills to do that. You know, who can imagine, okay, I'm talking to a class.

Dan (00:09:54) - Can I imagine myself in front of a classroom teaching? Well, I can, and there are other people that that can do that. And that's where the acting comes in. You know, unless you actually have the cultural literacy to understand what the subject matter is. And I think that's a that's a really important point, is finding somebody, you know, who has the cultural literacy that will make it what you're trying to teach. Understandable. Um, you know, and of course, a lot depends on the copy, too, you know, if it's dense and technical and I know people who do, uh, a lot of technical narration, uh, you know, for, you know, aircraft mechanics or, uh, a lot of different, you know, even mechanics for anything. You know, there are there are, there are companies that that do a lot of, uh, educational stuff for specific skill sets, you know, mechanics, graphic artists, all these sorts of things.

Dan (00:10:50) - And if somebody has a basic knowledge of it. They can probably convey whatever it is that the author of that particular thing is trying to get across. Um, and but it's like dating. You got to find the right person and but you have to know where to look. And you can go to a professional pay to play site where there are they'll accept anybody in there as long as they're paying their fee, but they're not necessarily professionally vetted. And you want to find somebody who does this for a living, not a part timer and not somebody who's doing it as a hobby. Somebody that actually knows how to do that. And our organization, you have to qualify that. And we vet them. We're like, is this person a professional? Yes they are. Nobody else is doing that.

Rod (00:11:40) - Well, you know, um, I've been in academia my whole professional life and, um, some faculty, um, imagine that they are great teachers in front of the classroom, and but they're not always stars.

Rod (00:11:54) - They, um, don't necessarily, um, speak in a way that's, uh, relatable, understandable by, you know, by the on the student side. And, um, I think you have to have some, um. You can use humor sometimes. Um, and so there has to be a balance, I guess, between, you know, uh, sort of the entertainment value of being in front of the class or being in front of the zoom camera and the educational content. Um, can you give any, um, tips to faculty in terms of, uh, what they need to do to up their game?

Dan (00:12:37) - Well, um, one having a good audio setup is pretty important. Uh, as you can hear, I you can hear me clear as a bell here. And it sounds like I am in the same room with you, and that's, you know, that's one of the things I professionally teach is to teach people how to how to record, um, properly at home.

Dan (00:12:59) - And, uh, you know, there's a lot of cheap microphones out there. And, you know, you if you ask advice on the internet, how do you record at home? You're going to get 20 billion different, different, you know, and there's recording for podcasts and there's recording for voice over narration. It's you don't need to have a really expensive microphone, but you should have a good microphone and know how to use it properly. Uh, you know, there are certain techniques for using it. Uh, you don't want to have plosives and, uh, you know, mouth clicks and all those other things, although that's actually natural to how we speak. But plosives is, you know, microphone technique. Um, and getting the mindset, you know, if, if you're recording stuff for where you're not actually engaged with that actual audience, you're just recording it. Um, having a good setup to record properly is really important. The acoustics of the room are really, really important. Uh, and you'll find that the louder you talk, the more the acoustics of the room come into play.

Dan (00:14:12) - So you need to have a very acoustically neutral space where there's no background noise coming, you know, or a minimal amount, and that there's no reflection, you know, you know how many I've, I've, you know, I, I produce several podcasts and I tell the people, don't record in your living room or your front hall or something along those lines.

Rod (00:14:35) - Yeah. Don't use the built in microphone on your laptop.

Dan (00:14:39) - Exactly, exactly. You do need an external. No, they make some great microphones that are strictly USB. You know, you plug it into the computer, it has its own preamp in it and they sound great. And some of them don't. Uh, so you have to spend about $150 or more to get a good microphone. Uh, and, you know, and, and there are a few out there that, you know, that are really, really good. Uh, I could mention some brand names if you want me to, but, uh, learning how to use a microphone properly and having the right environment and knowing how to set levels properly goes a long way to sounding very, very professional, you know? You know.

Rod (00:15:21) - One thing that I'm always impressed with is, you know, we see the news broadcast on broadcast TV and obviously the reading from a teleprompter or, you know, somebody talking into their ear. And, you know, in the past when I've tried to read a script, uh, it's not so easy. Um, it it's often sounds. Well, it sounds like you're reading from a script. You know what? How do you tell people to, uh, how do you help people get over that, uh, and improve their ability to speak, uh, you know, from a script.

Dan (00:16:02) - Uh, well, and therein lies the whole rub of professional voice acting is making it sound like you are saying it off the top of your head and not reading it as a script that's acting. That's a matter of understanding that it's a conversation or, you know, unless it's supposed to be boring. Because, as you know, there's a lot of material out there that, you know, especially medical narration, which can be unbelievably boring.

Dan (00:16:30) - Uh, but you have to be able to say ankylosing spondylitis without thinking about it too much. Um, yeah. It's a matter of practice. Uh, you know, at most schools, there's got to be somebody teaching oral interpretation. Uh, I would highly suggest, you know, if you if there's somebody teaching that at that, your institution.

Dan (00:16:52) - Can you give me some pointers on how to how to, you know, read something and make it sound like I'm not reading it? And it takes practice, you know, I mean, that's part of what we are as professional voice actors is we practice, we're constantly studying, we're professional actors. We have to keep our craft fresh. We have to, you know, stay up with the latest trends. But also having a meta person saying what you are saying is getting through to me. I understand what you're saying, uh, and you're communicating properly with me as teachers. I mean, you know, there's a lot of things you have to think about.

Dan (00:17:27) - You know, you've got, you know, individual attention, uh, to each individual student because everybody has different learning styles. And you want to be able to have something that's going to be generically acceptable to a lot of people. But, you know, some people are very visual on how they learn. Some people are very, very auditory and how they learn, uh, you know, some people have to learn by touching stuff. Um, so having a communicative voice that. We'll cut through people's attention and keep them engaged. And an a voice can do that. But just reading a script is not the way. And it takes practice. It takes a little bit of, uh, you know, learning and technique in order to do that. So I would say the best thing that you can do as a, as a, you know, if you're doing a lot of e-learning and you're in your teaching, um, is learn the technique of sounding human.

Rod (00:18:26) - Right? Right. You know, this always reminds me, uh, when talking about this topic, uh, years ago, there was a program on NPR where they talked about the what goes on behind the scenes in order to make their broadcast, uh, especially when they do interviews.

Rod (00:18:45) - Um, sound really good. They do a lot of post editing, and they take out the ums, the ahs, the pauses, and, um, I've come around. I used to do a lot of that, adding, I mean, I, I use, um, a lot myself, and I used to spend much more time. It would take me hours to put together a podcast, depending on how poor my interviewee was. So I've come around to thinking that maybe I was doing too much editing, that sometimes it sounds more human. Um, uh, some of the podcasts I listen to on a regular basis, um, Leo Laporte has a bunch of podcasts I listened to This Week in Tech this week in Google, and they do very little editing around that. So, um, what would you what's your philosophy or in practice, how much editing goes on? And do you do you expect that, um, uh, you know, people that hire your or hire a voice actors? Uh, do they expect to do a lot of editing? What what's the trade off?

Dan (00:19:52) - Depends on the material, uh, and what you're trying to get across most. If you've got a script in front of you, chances are you're not going to say, um, uh, you know, you will practice it. You will mark the script. Okay, I gotta go up here, you know? You know, we could get into a discussion of I. But you know how a human being talks and, you know, it's the way I describe it is you have to be able to maintain the pattern of human speech. So a lot of people learn editing they like, but sentences together and stuff like that. And it's like this incredible run on sentence, um, a good editor. And, you know, people have been doing voice work for a long time, become good editors. Uh, I mean, I've been editing since real to real days, uh, you know, so and now with digital editing, it's so easy. It's like drawing with crayons to someone who's experienced at doing it, who understands, you know, editing theory and things like that, but taking out ums and coughs and stuff like that.

Dan (00:20:54) - Yeah, that's natural. But you have to be able to maintain, you know, if you stop and cough in the middle of the sentence, I would say rerecord the sentence and try and get through it and uh, and then go back and edit that. And there are editing techniques, uh, you know, that you can learn to speed up that process. The more you do with, the faster you get at it. Uh, you know, if you're teaching a class, you know, having been a classroom teacher, you know, everything was ad libbed. You know, you have a lesson plan. You know what you want to teach. You know, you have it in your mind. And what order are you going to teach it? You know, you've got your anticipatory set. You've got, you know, get their attention. Tell them what you want to tell you. You're going to tell them about. Tell them what you're going to tell them. And if it's ad libbed.

Dan (00:21:41) - You can have those things in there, especially if somebody is familiar with the speech pattern of that particular instructor. The idea is to not make it sound robotic and taking out, you know, big breaths. Uh, you know, sometimes that will make it sound somewhat robotic or and we don't want that, especially with AI coming on, which sounds really robotic as far as I'm concerned. Uh, yeah. Well, you.

Rod (00:22:08) - You touch on what I was thinking. Is the elephant in the room here? I've heard, you know, I'm. I'm learning as much as I can about AI and all different aspects. And, uh, it has advanced tremendously in the past couple of years in terms of, uh, voice synthesis and, uh, sounding natural. I'm. It's not always there. Uh, you know, there's that uncanny valley. You can you can tell that, uh, it's not a human. What's your, um, thought on that? Is that is AI going to be putting a lot of folks out of business with regard to voice over.

Dan (00:22:43) - You know, the voiceover community? We talk about this all the time. I, I tend to think it's something somewhat of a nothing burger. Uh, if you're a professional and you have clientele, they're going to keep hiring you. If you're good, they always come back to the well because they know what they're going to get. And, you know, there are certain instances where an AI voice might work. You know, I, I've been watching a lot of videos, uh, you know, I guess it's mostly propaganda, uh, about the war in Ukraine. And there are a lot of different outlets that are, you know, sending out their, their material, but they're being real cheap about it. And they have they're using AI voices and they can't pronounce words properly. They can't uh. They? A computer cannot make the thousands of decisions that someone like me can make. Looking at a piece of copy, you know, do I go up? Do I delay this word a little bit? Uh, how do I how do I create new ones? Computers can't create new ones.

Dan (00:23:44) - It just can't be done. And nuance is very, very important in human speech. So I think people are going to try it, uh, you know, just because they have to have this material, they write it and they give it to a machine. The machine just dictates it off. That doesn't communicate. That doesn't. Doesn't get into somebody's head. It's. It's just words. And a human being like you and I are talking right now. We. There are ways to talk to people that are human. And like I said, it's drawing out a word or going up on a word or something like that.

Dan (00:24:24) - It can't be synthesized. You know, they say it can. It's getting better. I don't buy it. I think what's going to happen is a lot of people are going to try it, as I was saying, and they're going to find that it doesn't do what they want it to do, and they're going to go back to using a human voice, even if it's their own.

Dan (00:24:41) - And, uh, you know, I mean, we're talking about recorded material, you know, that that might be part of a course. But if we're talking about people who are actually teaching, you know, who are usually in a classroom, but now they're doing it remotely. Um, really, you don't have to change a whole lot. You set to be yourself.

Dan (00:25:02) - But, instructor, it still will carry across. And if you're doing it straight away and just recording it, you know, I mean, if you come to a point where you lose your place or something. Yeah, you can stop and you can edit that. But I would say if you know your material and if you're a college professor, I would hope that you do. Uh, it really shouldn't be that much of an issue. Uh, you should be able to just continue on doing what you're doing. Again, it's it has to do with the quality of the audio. People talk about broadcast quality, which to me means absolutely nothing.

Dan (00:25:38) - Uh, broadcast quality means from all of my experience in working with so many other people, it means that the audio doesn't sound bad, which sounds simple, but there are so many things that can make it sound bad. Bad acoustics, background noise. You know, I was I was helping I was producing a podcast with some people in New York, uh, about it was about parents and, you know, and parents choices and education and stuff. And they were interviewing people around big tables, and it sounded like a conversation at a dinner party. And then an ambulance would go by, you take that out. It's like, yeah, but how about not recording with the window open in midtown Manhattan? You know, it's.

Rod (00:26:25) - Can you point to any, um, specific examples of where a higher education institution would, uh, benefit from using, uh, voiceover because it's, uh, you know, professional voiceover because it's not necessarily cheap. Uh, there are commercial companies that that develop educational materials.

Rod (00:26:46) - Maybe they hire them. Can you point to any particular examples of, uh, where that really works in higher ed?

Dan (00:26:53) - My experience has been with, with, uh, you know, you know, primary and, and, uh, secondary schools, uh, because I've used a lot of material for them, as have many of my colleagues. Um, there are definitely companies that are producing educational material, and they will hire professional voice actors to do that. Uh, you know, I mean, there's a lot of questions in what you're asking because does somebody have somebody who's teaching, have the budget to hire somebody to do this type of material? And chances are probably not unless they have a budget for producing that. Um, but you can buy, you know, you can have companies produce it. You'll find a lot more of that in, you know, in the medical narration field, especially pharmaceuticals. Uh, they're always hiring professional voice actors to be able to pronounce those, those weird drugs and all that other stuff.

Dan (00:27:48) - Uh, and, um, but for higher education, it's really a new concept for, I think, higher education because it was always, you know, on campus in a classroom teaching things. Uh, and now that it's all online, you know, is it pre-prepared material? If it's pre-prepared material, if it's supposed to, you know, it goes with a slideshow or a PowerPoint presentation, you know, that takes editing, that takes skill to be able to, you know, convey that kind of, uh, material. Uh, my suggestion is. You know, if you're teaching a class, you really have to teach it yourself. And you want to sound good and you know and learn the techniques of recording properly. Uh, for outsourced material, you would hope that a company that you're outsourcing to is going to hire a professional voice actor to produce that audio for you. And, uh, you know, and they're going to have very, uh, strict standards that they're going to want to stick to.

Dan (00:28:53) - So they're going to want to hire a professional that knows how to record properly.

Rod (00:28:57) - Right, right. You know, one.

Rod (00:28:59) - Of the first things, uh, when I worked at my start at work in my last institution, I'm going back about 12 or 13 years. They wanted me to, uh, implement, um, lecture capture and, um. And I'll tell you, you know, they didn't necessarily have the proper mic set up. They would. They wouldn't even want to wear a lavalier mic. They have a mic at the podium. But the professors walking back and forth, the audio quality goes in and out. Um, are you seeing any, um, new, new technology that, um, can be used in the classroom for situations like that?

Dan (00:29:41) - Absolutely. Uh, what you have is there's a couple of companies, um, road being one of them, which is an Australian company. They make these little boxes that you just hang on yourself, and it's a wireless mic that goes to your iPhone, uh, or to a, you know, a receiver for that sort of thing.

Dan (00:30:02) - And you can record that into anything. Uh, and you're seeing this a lot with a lot of influencers and YouTubers and stuff. They're using these body mics that are really, really good. They're wireless, they're easy to set up, and they will provide, you know, they will record you no matter where you are. And not something I think that would. That would help. Uh, yeah.

Rod (00:30:25) - That's a good tip. Yeah, I'd like to find out more about that. Maybe you could, uh, uh, leave us a, uh, leave me a link that I can put into my show notes. And a lot of times, uh, with lecture capture, especially, um. Um, I don't think we ever we didn't implement it, but I know there was technology out there where the. They would professor would wear something around their neck as, uh, that the camera would automatically follow. So when they would walk across the room, the camera would actually follow them. And then there were the people, the faculty that wrote on the still wrote on the whiteboard, or, God forbid, an old blackboard, and that would never come across.

Rod (00:31:05) - Well, you know, with lecture capture. So, um, you know, we thought, well, see, the best way to do that would be to stand at the podium and there's a pen you can draw right on the podium screen, and it's big and it's you do your equations. But that never caught on. Uh, they just weren't used to that. And it was kind of awkward, I guess. Uh, they're used to writing big on a chalkboard instead. Uh, they would have to, like, print, you know, on a, uh, on a screen so that that never really worked out.

Dan (00:31:33) - I think instructors need to learn the technology of proper video, uh, which requires. You can do a lecture, but have graphics to go with it. I mean, when I teach, I do it by PowerPoint and or on my Mac. I use keynote, uh, and I make very entertaining slides. But by going, it's like it's your index cards. Here's what I'm going to talk about, you know, and then and then be able to intersperse those slides into, uh, into your presentation.

Dan (00:32:08) - So, you know, it might be somebody talking. And I go, well, let's take a look at this and then have that graphic there and have it, you know, and learn how to animate it. Uh, you know, you know how to, you know, make sure that, you know, here's this next point, here's this next point. Uh, I was using that technology back in the 90s when I was, when I was teaching high school. And it was it works really, really well, um, and by half, you know, and if you're but if you're teaching in, in a lecture hall and you've got those slides just, you know, use, use some software like Adobe Premiere, if you can learn how to use that. There are other programs that are super duper simple, uh, you know, that you can superimpose that, that, that slide on top of your voice. Very, very effective.

Rod (00:32:57) - Yeah. Well, faculty are very fond of using PowerPoint.

Rod (00:33:00) - Uh, uh, what I'm amazed at even, even, uh, going into webinars that are professionally done or, or going to a presentation someplace, uh, you know, people crowd too much text on the slide. You know, there's rules for that, too. You're only supposed to put a couple lines, and you should be able to read it by the back of the room. But, uh, that often, uh, is a bad way to, to present. Well, listen, Dan, I think, uh, I want to be respectful of my audience time. I think this was, uh, interesting learning much more about, um, your profession and how people can improve themselves and how to go to, uh, where to go to, I guess if they want to either break into, uh, voiceover a profession or to, to hire someone. And any final words do you want to say about that?

Dan (00:33:52) - Well, there certainly are a lot of people who think that voiceover is an easy way to make a living, and they're in for a big surprise.

Dan (00:33:59) - It's a skill you've got. It's a profession. Uh, people have invested in education, they've invested in equipment, they've invested in their marketing and all those things. It takes a professional entrepreneur to do it, and not necessarily somebody with a great voice, but somebody who can communicate. Because I know a lot of people with really weird voices who are still very good communicators. So, uh, uh, you want to get into voiceover? You know, I there are certainly ways to do that. There's a lot of a lot of institutions that are, you know, professional coaches and stuff like that. Not all of them are very good. Uh, some people who've tried voiceover, they did one commercial and suddenly they're a coach. Uh, I think you'll find that in a number of industries. Uh, but it certainly is very, very prominent in the voiceover business. I would say, you know, learn, understand. Who is doing this type of work and, and hiring somebody that that, you know, can relate to it.

Dan (00:35:01) - Uh, you know, sometimes it may take a little bit to find the right person to, to narrate that stuff. And other times if you, you hear a voice, this person has what I want. And then you can hire them to do that type of material. So, uh, and that's why we have voice overs, which is, you know, easy to access. It's free to use the site. Of course, you have to negotiate a price with, you know, the, the talent that you select, but you have such a choice of different people in different styles and who can and you can tell if somebody can communicate, you know, if you listen to them, I mean, I know it in three seconds. If somebody, you know, they're not just talking that they're, they're communicating. Uh, and that's really what you have to look for is somebody who sounds like they're not reading something.

Rod (00:35:48) - All right. Well, thank you so much, Dan, for spending some time with me.

Dan (00:35:51) - My pleasure. Rod, thanks for thanks for inviting me.

Rod (00:35:54) - I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you have a great holiday season. We'll see you again in 2024. So on that note, stay tuned and listen to the full song Jingle Bells. Until next time, have a great week!


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